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Post by rob1966 on Oct 10, 2022 17:04:04 GMT
Any opinions on the worthing pitch? I thought it was pretty good and allowed a nice flowing game, obviously winning on it made it even better. I'd like to know your thoughts, would we like one?
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Post by Tom Bowen on Oct 10, 2022 18:15:25 GMT
I wouldn't say it's worth the investment, to be honest. If it works for other teams, fair enough. However, if they are serious about progressing, then it'll have to be torn up and re-laid with real grass anyway as they progress through the leagues. That said, I'm unsure how many have it in the National League, off the top of my head I would say most teams have grass, but there's quite a few with 3G pitches in this division!
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Post by borobob on Oct 10, 2022 18:31:41 GMT
Pros and cons on 'non grass' pitches Rob.
Its certainly flat, and overcomes the need for continuous watering and seeding during the summer, somwething that may become more vital as the climate changes. Ends the possibilities of postponements during bad weather, although snow still has to be brushed off!! Makes pitches available for renting out 24hrs, to other organisations, or clubs sharing, and raising valuable finance.
It is, however very expensive to lay in the first place, and still needs occasional maintenance, and replacement every ten years or so. The type of football played on it is very different to that played on grass, ( although we coped with it quite well on Saturday!!) Bounce of the ball is different, and it skids across the surface rather than holding on grass. Different footwear is also needed. More trainers than boots!! It takes a toll on players knee and ankle joints over time (ask Ricky) as the give is not as soft as on well kept grass.
I still believe that Clubs with the non grass surface have an advantage over Clubs without one, for 50% of the season, and that can't be a good thing for football in general.
Also, currently, the EFL do not allow synthetic pitches so there is a huge cost involved in ripping it out again and returning to grass for those fortunate to be in the promotion place, ala Sutton and Harrogate for example.
So the jury is out as far as I am concerned. Initial costs of laying plus hiring out costs less replacement and maintenance costs less removal if successful costs!
Depends on the individual Club's ambitions and finance as to whether it is viable or not!
The conundrum will only be sorted when the F.A/PL/EFL allow synthetic pitches for everyone, and the finances to support it, that they will become the norm and football will change once again for ever.
My personal view? football belongs on grass. This is not the NFL in America.
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Post by farnboroughfan1 on Oct 10, 2022 19:02:27 GMT
Totally agree with everything you said Bob.. I just dont like our football on fake grass..reminds me more of 5-a-side surface..
If the EFL dont allow it, just have grass..and a fake pitch for earning cash on the side
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Post by Dom Lloyd on Oct 10, 2022 19:39:52 GMT
Any opinions on the worthing pitch? I thought it was pretty good and allowed a nice flowing game, obviously winning on it made it even better. I'd like to know your thoughts, would we like one? No thanks!
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Post by theborowalk on Oct 10, 2022 20:36:42 GMT
Any opinions on the worthing pitch? I thought it was pretty good and allowed a nice flowing game, obviously winning on it made it even better. I'd like to know your thoughts, would we like one? Agreed, thought it was a decent surface Saturday. Noticeably less rubber kick up than other ones we've played on. Chief driver is surely how much revenue it can generate, locally, and whether the council fancy it or we can have some of the premier League grant cash announced recently. Whilst I have one foot firmly in the grass nostalgia camp, if it was something that helped secure the long term of the club, it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. Many other clubs have made it work, Sutton being the obvious stand out recent example. Ultimately it's your cash though, Rob. What are Spencer's thoughts on it?
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Post by borobob on Oct 10, 2022 21:26:04 GMT
Yes they made it work so that they got a promotion to EFL out of it, but then had to rip it up and re-lay gras to comply with entry!!
I wonder what the cost implications were on the whole exercise?, and would they do it again if they ever return to National League?
The former Sutton Manager, who's company laid the synthetic pitch, moved on to Havant who, surprise surprise, now have a synthetic pitch. Cynics could suggest an ulterior motive here somewhere, but I couldn't possibly comment.
We played there recently, narrowly losing late on, so maybe we learnt something from that to take to Worthing?
Whatever the debate will go on until the powers at be make a decision one way or the other, but don't hold your breath!!
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Post by theborowalk on Oct 10, 2022 21:29:28 GMT
So you're saying we can have promotion to the football league and then have the grass back? Well, I'm sold now!!
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Post by hawleybootboy on Oct 10, 2022 21:35:55 GMT
Sutton were still quids-in after ripping-up the 3G and putting grass back - they were essentially paid handsomely by the EFL to do so as the last thing they want is a club questioning why and holding-out on defying their rule. The 3G served Sutton very well for as long as they needed it as a revenue stream - however once you have the 3G you still have to re-lay it on a fairly regular basis as it wears out through use, therefore there is a significant maintenance cost on the pitch after it is laid and the process is more than just a one-off cost meaning you need to be renting it out to accumulate the money you need to re-lay.
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Post by borobob on Oct 10, 2022 23:33:25 GMT
So you have to fork out to fit it in the first place?
Then you accumulate rental costs to pay for the maintenance and to replace it when it is worn out?
You then pay out to have it replaced back to grass, if you are successful in achieve promotion to the EFL, which then gets repaid by the EFL?
If that is the scenario, you have lost out on the original cost of fitting it!
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Post by beardedavenger on Oct 11, 2022 6:21:36 GMT
So you have to fork out to fit it in the first place? Then you accumulate rental costs to pay for the maintenance and to replace it when it is worn out? You then pay out to have it replaced back to grass, if you are successful in achieve promotion to the EFL, which then gets repaid by the EFL? If that is the scenario, you have lost out on the original cost of fitting it! On that basis then would break even. But you are making the assumption that a club would not earn profit by renting out the pitch. The whole point is presumably that the revenue will exceed the maintenance costs.
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Post by hawleybootboy on Oct 11, 2022 7:13:36 GMT
It’s a balancing act: the more it is used the faster the surface deteriorates, so do you have intensive use bringing in large revenue to profit but the playing surface deteriorates for the first team’s games as a consequence, or do you rent it sparingly so it does not wear as much but breaks even?
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Post by rob1966 on Oct 11, 2022 7:42:28 GMT
Any opinions on the worthing pitch? I thought it was pretty good and allowed a nice flowing game, obviously winning on it made it even better. I'd like to know your thoughts, would we like one? Agreed, thought it was a decent surface Saturday. Noticeably less rubber kick up than other ones we've played on. Chief driver is surely how much revenue it can generate, locally, and whether the council fancy it or we can have some of the premier League grant cash announced recently. Whilst I have one foot firmly in the grass nostalgia camp, if it was something that helped secure the long term of the club, it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. Many other clubs have made it work, Sutton being the obvious stand out recent example. Ultimately it's your cash though, Rob. What are Spencer's thoughts on it? I'd like to know Spencer's thoughts on the pitch,don't think he made comment on it in his post match interview.
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Admin
Administrator
Posts: 907
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Post by Admin on Oct 11, 2022 9:18:35 GMT
I'm not convinced there is a sound business case to lay an artificial surface at Boro'. It might have worked a few years ago, but now?
There are numerous existing 3G facilities in the local area already and there are far fewer amateur teams around these days - the Sunday leagues have all but disappeared, ditto the smaller Saturday leagues. Also the floodlighting of existing 3G facilities, a fair number of which are tailored to 5-a-sides, tennis etc, costs a lot less than our set-up as they don't have to meet National League requirements.
So any 3g at Boro' would be not be as flexible as the competition and would cost significantly more to run in the winter months. Is there room in the local market, would we have the resources to staff the facility adequately and would we be competitive on price?
Post edited to add:-
Many moons ago, when Janet and Terry Parr were at the (old) Club, there was an unfulfilled dream to work with Rushmoor BC to build a floodlit all-weather facility on part of Moor Road Rec that would have been managed by the Club. This would have provided a competitive, flexible solution that would have reduced our training expenses while providing opportunities to generate significant income from hire fees and bar revenues. The idea never came to fruition as the up-front money needed to make it happen simply wasn't there.
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Phil M
1st team regular
Club Welder
Posts: 145
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Post by Phil M on Oct 11, 2022 9:18:46 GMT
I would much rather see us take control of part of Moore Road rec and put one in there and strike a deal with the council over rent and revenue. Moore Road is an absolute shambles now after the works have wrecked the grass areas. It would be really sensible of the council to agree and further improve their facility in partnership with the club, however when has sense ever been any councils official line?
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