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Post by gav87 on Dec 11, 2023 14:39:32 GMT
Hearing over the last few weeks when we lose we seem to blast Spencer straight away. Seen a few times that we should be looking over our shoulders but were closer on points towards playoff then relegation places. Yes some games havent been great but this league is very close and competive. does this mean our expectaions are very high with a low budget or does some people find an excuse to get Spencer out when we lose. What does he have to do to get everyone on hes side?
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Post by borobob on Dec 11, 2023 16:41:26 GMT
Some interesting points there Gav.
To be honest, I have not been one of Spencer's greatest fans but, without him and Rob, I have to concede that we probably wouldn't have a Club, or certainly not one at this current level, so I bow to him for that and believe, rightly or wrongly, that everything at the Club appears to be controlled by him!
Spencer obviously has some great contacts, and has found some very good players for us. My main fear however is that, when it comes to managing those players, forming tactics, making decisions etc., he falls short and, from my point of view, he has come to the peak of his ability as a Manager at this level.
You, quite rightly, say that this is a very tough League, and there are some very old wise heads and players scowling around among some very old and well established Clubs.
Despite what we may think, we really are a small fish in an increasingly bigger pond, and there are many piranhas floating around!!!!
Senior players that he manages to persuade to come here, may have been around the block a bit and, I may be wrong here, but they might just know a little bit more about the game than he does, and I'm not sure they all fully fall in with Spencer's methods, or views.
Would I want him out of the Club, decidedly no! Would I want him to step back from Team Management? Probably yes!!
Firstly, I don't think his personal connection to the Club would let him leave, and secondly I'm not sure either if he could be persuaded to step back from what is his own creation!! This is the dilemma!!
The dream team, as far as I'm concerned, would be for Spencer to take up a 'Director of Football' sort of role. Control the budget, find the players and then hand them over to Ricky and Steve for the training, coaching and Match day stuff!
I have great respect Spencer as a person, and for what he has done for the Club to date, but it may well be time now to take a wider look at the Club in general, and stepping back from the front line would be a good way to enhance that respect with all supporters.
In his las reports, he threw in the line 'with all that's going on around here lately'!! Wonder what that eluded to?
We await developments with interest.
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Post by Tom Bowen on Dec 11, 2023 17:34:56 GMT
I can't see it happening. I agree that it is the best option, but I can't see it happening.
What frustrates me really is all these cryptic messages.
After the FA Cup game at Wingate, he said "There's a lot going on behind the scenes that will become apparent" and "There's a lot going on with Alfie at the moment."
With the benefit of hindsight, it's pretty obvious what that was, with the Woking transfer.
A few weeks ago after the Worthing game, there seemed to be a dig at the fans. "Everyone wants an opinion. They've got very short memories, and there's always people who want to shout loudest."
Now, we have, "The problems are mounting up for us with everything that's going on."
Personally, I'd rather not have to wait a week/month to figure out what it is he was on about. I understand that there are things that managers can't or won't say, but to leave us in the dark pretty much every time is quite frustrating.
I also agree, in contrast, that without Spencer and Rob, we wouldn't be in the position that we are in now. We have improved massively, even since lockdown, which, lets be honest, was a good reset for us.
But has Spencer taken this as far as he can? With the players that he can bring in... no. He has some very good contacts. With the matchday and training.... only Spencer, truly, will know, but for me, there's definitely an argument to say so.
I'm sure he'll disagree, and if he proves me wrong, then fair enough. However, I think it is the next best logical step forward!
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Post by ginger49 on Dec 11, 2023 19:09:02 GMT
I honestly believe we have reached our level and to be honest I think we are at the equivalent of where the old farnborough town fc were when we reached the national/ conference. In the old days there were more part time clubs in the national now its nearly the 5th full time division. Let's be grateful we have a club to watch, win lose or draw
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Post by boromike on Dec 11, 2023 22:25:43 GMT
Like Tom all the cryptic messages piss me off. It’s not fair on supporters who spend their hard earned money following the club to be given worrisome open ended remarks and then have to wait on tenterhooks to find out what was being referred to and the ramifications. It is the complete opposite of endearing, I don’t understand why he does it or what he is trying to achieve. All it results in is speculation, which he then moans about further down the line despite the speculation being entirely of his own making. I'd also rather not be left in the dark having to wait whatever amount of time Spencer deems appropriate before filling us in.
Another annoyance I have is the never ending diversion of blame. It’s always the ref, the lino, the pitch, the weather, the players etc. etc., but never the management. I think we’d all respect him more if he’d just take some bloody accountability sometimes.
Thats the bad as I see it but I agree, without Spencer, we would not be in the position we are.
Trying to look at it rationally -
Did he take us back to the NLS, our natural level? Yes.
Did he consolidate our position with a respectable mid table finish after promotion? Yes.
Did he build a decent squad for this season after a lot of key players departed in the summer? Yes.
Would there even be a Farnborough FC if it wasn’t for Spencer? Who knows!
Have we underachieved this season with the squad at his disposal? Yes, so far.
Are we happy with the hoof ball/long throw style of football? I’d say no.
The obsession with Ricky being manager and Spencer moving upstairs is bizarre to me though. No one knows if Ricky will be a good manager and no one knows if Spencer would stick around if he were not the manager. The thought be careful what you wish for very much occurs. Personally, I’d hate to see Spencer go. Has he taken us as far as he can? Maybe, maybe not. I’ve absolutely no idea. However, Spencer in my view is a winner, he might take the long route, but he always seems to find a way. I personally don’t think he’ll rest until we are National League, it may take another decade but I’d back him to achieve it.
As a fan base we seem to have very contrasting expectations. Some seem to think we should count ourselves lucky to stay up, some that we are mid table at best, some (myself included) that we should be pushing/sneaking in to the play offs, and a small minority that we should be challenging for the title!
This isn’t helped by Spencer one minute saying we've a great squad and should be challenging for the play offs and then the next bemoaning the budget and implying we are lucky just to be in the NLS! It would be great if Spencer/the club actually shared with the supporters what the expectations/targets are, so we could all be singing from the same hymn sheet.
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Admin
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Post by Admin on Dec 12, 2023 0:03:37 GMT
I look at it from a different perspective.
Do I see signs of a sustainable business model emerging? Well, it's better than it used to be, but we supporters remain hugely dependent on the vissitudes of those who make up the, no doubt currently significant, shortfall between what is spent and what the Club gets in.
Am I glad we're back at Step 2 level? Of course, but the plain fact is some of the other clubs at this level have grown their income, on and off the pitch, to make their losses manageable, or even break even or better.
Our matchday income is way too low to get anywhere close to where we need to be. To provide some examples, the attendances at the likes of St. Albans City, Tonbridge Angels and Worthing are massively better than they were just a few years ago. Ours? Not so much. How did they do it?
Yet again (because we've been at this level, and better, before) we get a few more in, but the improvement is nowhere near enough to bridge the gap. This needs fixing, and I do not pretend that it's easy to do.
Between Aldershot and ourselves, 3,000 people on average are currently attracted to spend their money watching local football. Take away visiting fans, that'll be nearer 2,500. In a conurbation of 270,000. Fewer than 1 in a 100.
Let that sink in, as that's really poor, but also a massive opportunity.
I get it there's competition from the London clubs, Reading, Southampton and Pompey (not to mention fake fans who only watch on Sky or TNT), but we need to do far better.
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Post by borobob on Dec 12, 2023 0:09:30 GMT
Like Ginger, I am very grateful that we have a team to watch, after all the rubbish and heartache we have had to endure in the past, and we do have to give Spencer and Rob much credit for getting us here.
I also agree, that this League is now probably the strongest it has ever been, and the one above is absolutely frighteningly so much more professional and financially stronger than anything we could possibly compete with at this time.
We are now though, I believe, at a crossroads. 13th position, 37 goals for 38 against, half way through the season, and exactly half way in the table, and an average of around 1.3 points per game, plus we have played a fair few games more than those around us to boot!! Definitely time to look over the shoulder!
Continuing on that form would give us around the mid to high 50's in points by April, and just about enough to stave of relegation, just to concentrate the minds!!!
Considering the probable expenditure laid out in assembling this pretty decent squad, that seems a pretty poor return for supporters hard earned cash and our wonderful sponsors.
I wonder if anyone has done any form of analysis as to why we are so hit and miss? Where are the problems? How do we rectify them? Is this how the season is to pan out?
If the Owners and Management are happy to continue as we are, then fine, but it would be nice to know what steps are being taken, or considered, to improve the situation, and the future well being of the Club! Being frugal and debt free, as we are told, is to be admired though, and accepted as a side issue to all that happens.
Someone once before though, (no names no pack drill!!), said if you plan to stand still, you go backwards!!! Whatever your thoughts of him, I think he had a point!!!
I don't want to think about being back down in the Southern with Basingstoke, Merthyr, Hayes and Yeading etc either!!!
So, yes I'll be at Slough, Braintree at home, and Havant, and most of the rest of the season of course I will, but it does get harder to motivate sometimes!!
COME ON YOU YELLOWWSSAA!!
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Post by northlondonboro on Dec 12, 2023 15:00:05 GMT
Lot of good points there. Yes, there has been good and bad, and it's probably too late for our manager to learn some humility, man management or interpersonal skills now. But as owners we have a lot to be grateful to the current regime for.
I'd be interested to know if any stattos out there have the figures for Spencer's away league record in all the years he's been in charge (14?) I suspect that would be pretty damning.
Frustration comes from knowing the manager is unsackable, whatever happens. No wonder, when things are going terribly, people cast around for an alternative - any alternative.
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Post by msgribbin on Dec 12, 2023 18:44:34 GMT
As a relatively new fan here, I obviously don't have the same history with Spencer and the club as most posters.
All I can say is objectively the calls for him to give up the reins as manager do seem a bit odd.
The last two seasons have each been beyond expectations, so surely there's credit in the bank for that - quite aside from his role in building the club up financially.
We're now mid-season and mid-table. And honestly that feels about right. The standard of the league's higher than last year and over the piece so far we do look a decent but inconsistent mid-table outfit. The season hasn't been great, there have been some bad days but there have also been some very decent performances. A real mixed bag but sometimes consolidation is progress.
Maybe there's an issue of encouraging high expectations that are then extremely difficult to meet. I think the point about continuing to build the club commercially is important - basic things like better season ticket offers/cheaper on-line advance tickets seem an obvious growth point.
As for Spencer, most football managers are, um, quirky personalities and, as much as I like him well enough, I can see he's not everyone's cup of tea. But one slightly disappointing half season after two excellent years doesn't feel like grounds for a change to me.
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Post by antz27 on Dec 12, 2023 19:23:29 GMT
The big issue we have with attendance was it was always hard when we had both aldershot and Woking doing well playing at a higher league obviously that is always going to be tempting. Unfortunately now we also have Bracknell, Farnham, Ascot all emerging slightly lower but doing well playing some good football (think Farnham haven’t lost yet) so again when were not playing well fans may be tempted to go there and especially if we’re away and one of those is at home you may go and after a few games wonder why you put up with the mediocre performances sometimes.
Regarding Spencer the issue I have as along standing supporter is this isn’t his 1st or 2nd rodeo in this league with us…. Ok sometimes it has been harder due to our own off the field issues but you get to a point with every manager at every club where you have to say are they the man to take us up and forward or is this their level. Now if NLS is Spencer’s level and fans are happy to stay in this league for many years to come then so be it but as a business we should always be looking to move up as it brings more finances, I’m aware it also brings more costs (travel, hotels, wages). But the natural progression should be moving up ok we can consolidate in this league for a few years and then make the push but how long before we are just stuck. Every year is going to get harder just look at the NL and teams that were in it in the late 90s early 00s and now most are ex league clubs with half decent support and funds it won’t be long before that moves down and the NLS finds itself in the same situation and then we really won’t stand a chance of going up and the league below will become our standard.
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Post by borobob on Dec 12, 2023 20:29:44 GMT
Antz27, you are spot on with the attendance issue, and rightly cite Farnham and Bracknell as examples of two Clubs 'on the up'. I don't know anything about Ascot so can't comment.
It should also be mentioned in both the other two cases that they are heavily financed by one person, and we have been there before haven't we? We know where that can lead!! Even Dorking, in a similar position, are beginning to find that out!!
Throughout, I have always maintained that everything around the Club relies on what is happening on the pitch.
Winning, or at least entertaining, football brings in the crowds, and everything else follows in it's wake!
If we get to a situation where every season becomes the same old, same old, then it becomes static, stale and eventually standards and performances fall off, support falls, and there is an inevitable slide backwards.
Complacency is very difficult to control, and there should always be a desire to improve and grow.
If that desire is not there, there is a huge problem!!!
If the desire is there, but the ability to use it is not, then there is an even bigger problem.
Christ, I'm sounding like a certain voice from the past!!!! Sorry!
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Post by boromike on Dec 12, 2023 22:34:49 GMT
In order to increase attendances and in turn take the club to a new level you have to improve the match day experience. That is what Worthing, St Albans, Tonbridge etc. have all done. If I had the power I would do the below to improve the match day experience, which in turn would grow the fan base and increase revenue:
- The first thing I would do would be some market research. Find out exactly what people want from their Matchday experience.
- The second thing I’d do is change our badge, frankly it’s shit and is an awful representation of our brand. It looks really amateur and there is just no need for the 2007. Do Aldershot have 1992 on theirs? Do Rangers have 2012? We are literally advertising the fact previous owners were cowboys who nearly killed the club, I mean why? Branding is everything these days and we need to do better.
- Advertise the club more effectively locally. I often think the town centre could be cheered up no end by a giant Boro motif! At this point even some crude amateur graffiti might help! Advertise on the main roundabouts such as Farnborough gate…a Christmas tree sponsored by the yellows right now would be a great touch and help to build relations in the community!
- As good as our social media is, there is always room for improvement. We need to increase engagement. I regularly see things on other clubs SM that are really simple but impressive and have lots of engagement from supporters and I wonder why we aren’t following suit. There’s no shame in seeing someone else doing something well and following their lead. For example how about some behind-the-scenes content? People love to see what goes on behind closed doors. Quick clips, such as celebrations in the dressing room? A finishing drill at training? Anything to help build anticipation and make fans feel a part of the club. How about getting the supporters to vote on things? Engagement, engagement, engagement, it’s so important now. Better and more regular news would be great, fans want to know when a player is injured and for the love of god no more cryptic messages! The women’s team are marketing themselves on Tik-Tok, why aren’t the men? Imagine the younger generation we are completely missing out on by not having a presence there! Embrace technology, get a Boro app set up, let the supporters vote for man of the match, supporter engagement is key for a good match day experience and the only way to grow the fan base and subsequently increase revenue.
- Send players in to schools to talk about being a semi pro player for Boro, sign autographs, take pictures etc.
- Have a mascot (person in a suit) to make coming to matches more fun for young kids!
- How about getting someone to do some Boro face paint? As bad as our logo is I’m sure the kids would love to have it painted on their face before the match, to make them feel a part of it, with a template it wouldn’t even be hard work!
- Pre match entertainment to get people in early and spending money. The kids loved the free-styler and the live music at Hampton & Richmond last season.
- Half time entertainment (even if it’s just local U8’s playing a ten minute match, or a penalty shoot out between a Boro fan and a fan of the opposition, both picked out from the crowd at random) anything to keep those who don’t frequent the bar entertained, smiling and engaged.
- Better selection of alcoholic beverages. People want choice. Frankly I hate San Miguel, what I wouldn’t give for a Madri or Estrella!
- Better food options (I thought the snow cones & Pizza were a great initiative) The Belgian style waffles they do at St Albans, although costing an arm and a leg went down a treat with the kids! How about an ice cream van for next summer?
- Change the style of football. Move away from the long ball style and get the ball on the floor. We have good players and now Pavey has gone the long ball style isn’t even playing to our strengths. Get the ball down and play, entertain the crowd. People want to see good football.
- Atmosphere initiatives -
- A drummer who knows how and when to drum!
- Get rid of the seats in the middle of the PRE and make it standing. Get the vocal element of our support where they belong and where every other club has the good sense to make sure they are located BEHIND THE GOAL where they can create an atmosphere and help suck the ball in to the net! It would also make the ground appear far better attended on TV, which in turn will encourage new supporters. Who wants to go to what looks like a 3/4 empty ground with no atmosphere? It pains me that no one at the club realises this! A big part of why Aldershot average circa 3k is because of the atmosphere the Eastbank is able to create. I guarantee if it didn’t have a tin roof they’d lose about 1k overnight as the atmosphere would all but disappear.
- Encourage flags to be hung across the back of the PRE by having something installed for them to be hung on. The club could have a competition each season with a prize of a free season ticket to the supporter with the best flag, to encourage supporters to get them made! If that’s too much then a free shirt, it could be literally anything tbh!
This is just what instantly comes to my mind but the possibilities are endless! I’m not saying everything I have mentioned is easy to implement and maybe some of the suggestions aren’t possible, but the club need to find someone and give them the autonomy to make things like this happen if it wants to increase revenue and progress. Doing nothing is standing still and standing still is going backwards as far as I am concerned.
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Post by borobob on Dec 12, 2023 22:47:52 GMT
Great read Mike, that's called PR!!!!!!!!!! Something we have been missing for years, and no one has done a thing about it!!
Sounds like you are the man for the job!!
Ever thought of joining the community trust?
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Post by boromike on Dec 12, 2023 23:13:34 GMT
Great read Mike, that's called PR!!!!!!!!!! Something we have been missing for years, and no one has done a thing about it!! Sounds like you are the man for the job!!
Ever thought of joining the community trust?
I don’t believe that no one has ever tried. I’ve always assumed people would have tried to make things happen over the years but must have been met with immovable obstacles. I haven’t thought of joining the community trust, I have no idea what’s involved! I’d love nothing more than to see the club grow and if there was anything I could do to help I would. I have no PR experience though, just a massive passion for both the game and the club!
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Post by borobob on Dec 12, 2023 23:38:56 GMT
I do some of our predecessors a bit of a disservice there Mike, and I'm sure there has been some attempt to market the Club in the past, but I don't feel that it has ever ben done properly, probably because a real PR person would be expensive!!.
The main reasons probably had a lot to do with some pretty, shall we say, 'iffy' encounters with former officials, and dealings in the past and the financial situations that have arisen, leaving some very bad smells around the area with traders and suppliers re Farnborough Football. Mud sticks and all that!!
Happily, I'm glad to say those days are long past, and we do have some very good relationships with sponsors and businesses around the area, and some excellent work has been achieved, as the number of sponsors listed, and boards around the ground testify.
Now though is probably the time to raise the stakes in that work, and reach out like you say, but I say again, financing it is another matter!
The new Community Trust has started well, and I'm sure they would welcome your input. Give them a call.
As good as all that is though, I still refer back to my earlier post that everything is controlled by what happens on the pitch!! Get that right, and everything else follows!!
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